Robert Eisenman Adds His Perspective to the Gerd Luedemann Court Decision

February 23, 2009

Jesus Project fellow Robert Eisenman writes of the Luedemann case that it has a deep roots in the German educational system, going back to the Enlightenment itself:


“….Allow me to express a last follow-up example from Gerd’s own homeland and this two centuries earlier in the 1780’s when Moses Mendelssohn was wrestling with similar issues under circumstances relating to his nascent and growing Jewish Community in Germany and his own anomalous position concerning issues of ‘faith’ and ‘faithlessness’ which were on the rise and front-and-center in it — namely, the example he cited in Jerusalem, which might have helped Gerd’s case if his lawyers had been aware of it (though I doubt it), and that was the situation of ‘the mohel’ or circumcisor who had lost his faith and whose position and, therefore, the payment of his salary had come into question.

Mendelssohn’s conclusion after a certain amount of argumentation, brilliant as it was, was so simple in its clarity that picturesquely it might have helped in the staid atmosphere of courtroom Germany; and that was, as Mendelssohn put it in his own inimitable way: “A foreskin was cut” whatever the faith of faithlessness of the individual doing the cutting (Paul might have appreciated this one). For him, that was all of the matter a given Community had a right to concern itself with and no more, which was in this case Mendelssohn standing up for Mendelssohn against similar Communal religious authorities demanding like-minded conformity — certainly not the private beliefs of the individual — in Gerd’s case, this would be as long as the courses were taught to the standard of scholarly excellence for which Gerd is known. An example such as this from such an alien source, but still in the Germany of two centuries ago before the tragic events of more recent history, might have really got the Courtroom’s attention; but as they say hindsight is twenty-twenty and in cases, such as this, when a Court is intent on a given decision, as I have personally had occasion to notice, nothing is going to help.

I don’t know if any of this might prove helpful, but it does at least indicate the fellow-feeling one shares against such shallow parochialism and that these kinds of situations actually are not new in Germany, but even can go back several hundred years to the situation of guest communities desperately trying to deal with the challenges of modern intellectual life there.

With all kind regards, I remain

Robert Eisenman



Sad News for the Academy: German Courts Limit Theological Inquiry

February 22, 2009

Dear readers,

The following is written by Joe Hoffmann concerning news we, at the Jesus Project, have just heard this morning. Gerd Luedemann has lost his ten-year-long court battle in Germany. The ruling should surprise every critical mind, but it should be of great concern to those in the academy. Gerd writes (in regards to this piece below);

“As for Küng who is always mentioned when people hear about my case, he never went to court but settled with his university. My case is different because for the first time in history the German Supreme Court has issued a full statement on the role of theology in the university and the statement is anti-enlightenment because it plainy states that at German Universities the confession of a church or of any future religion overrides the academic freedom of a professor. That is an intellectial scandel against which the international intellectual community should protest the more so because the University of Göttingen rightly boast of being an enlightenment university (founded in 1737). And this ruling makes truely critical work at German theological faculties – both protestant and catholic – impossible.”

Where the once proud enlightened scholars brought the academy into a new world of theological inquiry, the courts have rules that such inquiry has limits. This is not the first time a scholar has been quieted in German universities because of dogmatic boundaries. And unfortunately, as this case proves, it will not be the last. All of academia should be in an uproar over this incident.


Gerd Luedemann: Non sine causa…laudatus

Gerd Luedemann, Professor of History and Literature of Early Christianity in the University of Goettingen, has received word from the Federal Constitutional Court in Germany that his appeal against an earlier ruling excluding him from the teaching of New Testament in the University’s Faculty of Theology has been rejected.

The basis for the Court’s ruling hinges on the fact that Professor Luedemann was “reassigned” to a position outside the Faculty offering essentially the same teaching and research opportunities as his previous position. In addition, the Court decided that the confessional teaching of theology is a unique responsibility of the Theology Faculty and that its interest in retaining a distinctive identity outweighed Professor Luedemann’s claim that the reassignment impinged on his academic (“scientific”) freedom.

The tradition of theological education in many European countries, including Germany, differs substantially from the American situation, where ministerial training is largely the province of private and parochial institutions or, in the case of distinguished private divinity schools such as Harvard, Yale and Chicago, subject to the same guarantees of academic freedom that obtain in the university as a whole.

Professor Luedemann’s distinguished work in the study of early Christianity now serves as a test-case for the entrenched and sometimes unnoticed parochialism of the European model, where—in this case–the open criticism of doctrine and theological axioms such as the resurrection of Jesus has been deemed impermissible, precisely in the interest of maintaining parochial identities. One can imagine no other area of serious study in the modern university where such a rule should be permitted to stand, or be used as the basis of a legal judgment. This case throws into bold relief the archaic nature of the marriage between Christian theology and scholarship as it is still protected by law not only in Germany, but in the United Kingdom, the Netherlands, and Switzerland as well.

Rooted in the political compromises of the Reformation, the structure of European theological education should become a matter of concern and a priority for the educational commissions of the European Union. Cases such as Luedemann’s, and earlier Hans Kueng’s at Tuebingen on the Catholic side, suggest that it is feckless to complain about the regressive nature of scholarship in the Arab world when seminal Christian doctrines can prevail over common sense and free inquiry in some of the most distinguished institutions of higher learning in the world.

We congratulate Gerd Luedemann in bearing the torch in this cause–and “fighting the good fight”

R. Joseph Hoffmann, Chair

Committee for the Scientific Examination of Religion;

Co-Chair, The Jesus Project


Please blog this article. Word of this travesty must get out to all and everyone.


Richard Carrier’s New Book

February 18, 2009

Richard Carrier recently published a new book! (No, it is not his Jesus book–he is still working on that one) Check out his blog post about it here: http://richardcarrier.blogspot.com/2009/02/not-impossible-faith.html

Also check out his book (as in ‘pick up a copy’) at Lulu here: http://www.lulu.com/content/4580954


An Amusing Graffito

February 12, 2009

Pompeii and Herculaneum provide some 11,000 inscriptions for scholars to study, most of them bring in Latin (although there are many still which are Oscan, Greek, Etruscan and at times, combinations of these). These inscriptions give a glimpse of what life was like at Pompeii from around 30 BCE to 79 CE shortly before its destruction, so it is easy for modern scholars to appreciate them. But apparently this wasn’t always the case. Unaware of his city’s impending doom and the usefulness of the writing on the wall, one rather interesting fellow lamented the following:

Ad miror te paries non c[e]cidisse qui tot scriptorum taedia sustineas.

Translation (given by Rex E. Wallace):

O wall, I am amazed that you have not fallen down since you support the loathsome scribblings of so many writers.

As Wallace aptly puts it in his An Introduction to Wall Inscriptions from Pompeii and Herculaneum (2005), “While we can understand the sentiments of the writer, at the same time we are grateful to those who have, by means of their scribblings, provided us with an invaluable means for gaining insight into the affairs and the language of the inhabitants of Pompeii and Herculaneum in the first century AD.” (pp. xxiii-xxiv)


The Jesus Project Website

February 11, 2009

Updates galore! As some of my readers have already borne witness to, the website has been resurrected (pun intended); from the ashes of the old will come the new. Carol has done a great job with the site so far. These updates include new News segments, the recent online discussions concerning the Project from all over the Blogosphere, and an updated list of Scholars Associates.

More is still to come. Keep an eye on the website and this blog for continued details.


From R. Joseph Hoffmann: A Discourse on Method

February 5, 2009

R. Joseph Hoffmann once again weighs in on the recent discussions concerning the Jesus Project. Unlike the previous entry posted here for him, this article handles a wide variety of issues; from detractors and apologists to methods that should be employed by the Project, its a great read through and through. Joe, the floor is yours…


A Discourse on Method: The Jesus Project

R, Joseph Hoffmann

Even before the Jesus Project had resolved itself into a critical mass of scholars with ideas, goals, and vision, bloggers of various persuasions pronounced its fate. It was quickly bloggled into one of three things: More of the Same Old Thing, A Radically New Thing, or a Thing that Wouldn’t Make a Difference whether old or new. To chop these positions finely: the first group consisted of apologists—those who believed that the questions proposed by TJP, or their formulation was impertinent, so were happy to declare the question dead at asking; but also of skeptics who had seen the grunts and groans and fissiparation of previous quests and seminars and were skeptical that anything really new would come from another set of scholarly calisthenics. The second group, which might have included me but didn’t, was giddy at the prospect that stalwart scholars were going to blast the timidity of the Jesus Seminar when it came to the edge of the Big Question, and march on to Baghdad, if the analogy between Gulf I and Iraq isn’t an inappropriate one. I was not the inventor of the preposterous slogan “What if the Most Influential Man in Human History Never Lived?” but I should have been its destroyer. I was however the “creator” of the suggestion that the non-historicity of Jesus is a testable hypothesis and can no longer be ignored and I still believe it. The second group also included, along with people who wanted to ventilate their “myth theories” in a serious forum, many who were interested in the formative power of myth in the creation of social groups and religious movements. The third group, mainly post-Christian and post religious skeptics wondered why in the twenty-first century anyone would worry about such an issue: whatever motives underlay the founding of TJP they were not (surely) as important as such pressing matters as getting God out of the Pledge and getting evolution back into the schools. For two years seriously concerned people wrote, emailed and phoned asking whether I had nothing better to do with my time.

In this space, I want briefly to address each of these positions directly—not to put straight a record that has not yet been written, but to alert both scholars and onlookers that we have everything to gain from confronting our critics as well as our theories.

TJP was never construed as a sequel to the Jesus Seminar. (I have now written that sentence eight times in different places.) That has not prevented linkages in the press of the “Mars-is-to-Earth …”variety. It did not begin as a corrective or a replacement to the Jesus Seminar. There is overlap only insofar as it is impossible to create a brand -new scholarly conversation without involving some of the same personalities and dealing with some of the same questions. Consider the Obama White House and the Clinton White House in terms of recidivist personnel and “issues”. I have said, recently and rather forcefully I hope, that the Seminar asked some of the wrong questions in the wrong order, skated past others, and that to accept any critique of TJP methodology, as it evolves, from a seminar whose own methods were often seen as risible would be–risible. Hence without being dismissive of the Seminar Jeremiahs who’ve been there, done that, TJP cannot proceed without an evaluation of what the Seminar accomplished, failed to accomplish, and the reasons for its performance. While I take the term “scientific” as it is used in the Committee for the Scientific Examination of Religion both cum grano salis and in its most German sense as “scholarly,” it’s my impression that all of those so far associated with the project take “scholarship” very seriously indeed and want this to be, at the very least, a faith-free process. My colleague April Deconick has recently offered her own superb assessment of the Seminar in a blog-series called “The Jesus Seminar Jesus is Bankrupt” (http://forbiddengospels.blogspot.com/). Critique is always a postmortem enterprise, and I believe the post-mortem has begun.

From what has been said above, it follows that the other part of the category who see the JP as a rehash of the Seminar, the apologists, need to look again. There are certainly associates who hold to a “myth theory,” and there are others who hold to a non-super-naturalist or radical historicist position. There are textualists who believe that a careful and positivistic reading of canonical sources will provide more information than a “fuller” view of Christian origins, and others who believe that there is only a notional difference between what canonical and non-canonical sources have to offer. There are advocates of Matthew Black’s famous view that we need to get behind the text to an Aramaic context to understand what it going on in the translations (if that’s what they are) we possess, and others who think a Galilean folk hero has been inserted into a Greek myth. Obviously that degree of non-unanimity is discomfiting to those who think the New Testament is self-authenticating text without context, but it can hardly be seen as business as usual to invite a free and open discussion of these positions knowing that they cannot all be right.

As to the idea that TJP is “radically new,” let me be the first to say calm down. There has been nothing “radically”—that is, theological-foundation-shatteringly—new in this area since Strauss, and almost no one reads Strauss anymore. Even if they did he’s virtually impenetrable without reading the heroic Hegel first. There has been, to be sure, a great deal of jockeying to say something radically new, as though Jesus-research is no different from looking for a new isotope. I’ve said recently that at a certain point in contemporary New Testament scholarship the quest to be the puzzle-solver largely replaced the quest for the historical Jesus—another caution we can take from the Seminar. In a culture of celebrity, the slow pace of scholarship is painful; in a dozen interviews about TJP, the first question, almost without fail, is “What are you people trying to prove?” or “What’s the conclusion?” Presumably, if I had said that we had stumbled on impressive information that, prior to his ascension Jesus gave to James the instructions for making a camera, and that we now had photographic proof of the event, they would have hung up. But if I say that new papyrus discoveries, combined with some pretty impressive canonical clues, substantiate the claim that the followers of Jesus were a first century gay alliance, they become more interested. Reporters will call you back. As a matter of fact, TJP needs to be new, but new also in eschewing sensationalism and exhibiting a certain lack of intellectual concupiscence as we trudge on. It is not enough to be “non-theological” since what is not theological is not eo ipso “right”; the Project also needs to be bold enough to say that some conclusions will be out of its reach, either for lack of evidence or lack of measurement. Again, the analogy is the sciences. There is nothing about the world of the twentieth century (save global warming) that is physically different from the world of Thomas Aquinas’s day. Our mode of describing the same things about that world has changed dramatically, however, and with it our understanding of how life evolved and human beings assumed their place on the planet. There is nothing in the nature of old evidence that cannot provide better understanding if the right methods of description are developed. TJP, if it is new, will be new to that extent.

And finally to the indifferent, the skeptics-with-portfolio (as distinct from the “detractors” in group one). The question “What does it matter?” is a fair question. It’s a sort of distaff to the view that Jesus matters as a self-evident proposition—matters to the life of faith, to the heart, or, as a moral teacher, to our conduct—not just the necessary presupposition of the movement that bears his title, but as the centerpiece to the religious life. The slogan “What if [he] had never lived” was somewhat bluffly and mistakenly directed at them, as though the sole legitimating reason for the Project is to disabuse religious men and women of their beliefs. Yet why would a Jesus who “did not exist” be of more value to unbelievers than a Jesus who existed in the “ordinary” way and died in an ordinary way? And why would religious folk be troubled by any conclusion reached by any group with such a siloistic objective?

That Jesus matters in one sense is a statement of faith, therefore he cannot matter historically anymore than any other event can matter. It is not legitimate to read back into his original story, whatever that may have been and however it may have evolved, a significance that was three hundred years in the canonical and doctrinal making and millennia in the revising. It seems to me that women and men who have decided that most historical questions have no bearing on the meaning and purpose of life are dead right. That disjunct will have to be acknowledged and almost all scholars do acknowledge it today. But to say that “Jesus does not matter” is a different sort of statement and strikes me as immensely uncurious if not downright tiresome. Does it mean that the question itself is uninteresting because the asker has decided that religion, being bogus anyway, causes us to indulge in inherently silly pastimes? Or does it mean that the question lacks what Aristotle called “Magnitude”—greatness—as might be claimed, for example, for the question of the origins of the universe, or human life, or language?

I have to say that people who have asked me the question seem shocked when I ask them why they are asking it. As if to say, “You seem like an intelligent man; why don’t you know the answer yourself?” But it seems to me that intellectual curiosity cuts in two ways, and that people need to be able to say why they are bored by something as much as why they are intrigued by it. As you may gather, from this little discursus, my sense is that the people in group three are displaying hostility rather than boredom. I remember telling my mother once that I was working on a research paper on the history of Christian marriage and had become fascinated with how relatively late the Church decided to ecclesize nuptial arrangements. Her immediate “Catholic” response was that such inquiries are better left to bachelors and maidens and she hoped that I wouldn’t publish the paper. That kind of hostility. As to magnitude, I think it has to be said that the “big questions” are always etiological and hence always to a certain extent historical; where things come from matters, and without subscribing to historicist or originalist positions, I would find it odd to maintain that the origins of a religion—any religion—are not at least as deserving of investigation as the origins of the English language or the trans-Asian migrations of the early Americans. Some things are worth knowing not because they are matters of fact or de coeur, but because they have achieved magnitude by assent or influence. I would regard it as more informative to know why the “question” of Jesus is not interesting than to explain its interest.

And so to “knowledge.” TJP might begin where Descartes did in 1637 with the Discourse on the Method of Rightly Conducting the Reason. Those who have kept their sophomore philosophy anthology on the shelf will remember that Descartes had professed “perfect confidence” in the ability of reason to achieve knowledge. His own “project” involved a preparation which he compared to the architectural destruction of a whole town. Towns, he recalled, had not developed “rationally” but in fits and starts creating a chaos of a landscape. This he compared to the state of knowledge in the seventeenth century, heavily dependent on everything that had come before, when nothing that had come before achieved the systematic standard he set for himself. “We must begin,” he wrote, by “deliberately renouncing all of the firmly held but questionable beliefs we have acquired through experience and education.” And as we know, while Descartes was not occupied with the question of scripture, having learned a thing or two from Galileo’s fate, he was immensely interested in the question of God.

No one who lives in a post-Enlightenment and postmodern world can believe that Descartes fulfilled even his own hubristic agenda, but he did provide a “method” that TJP might consider (and is considering) as it moves along. In his seminal Book III, the philosopher proposes that a proper investigation should always include four parts:

1. “To accept as true what is indubitable.” That is to say, ascertain to the extent possible what is factual, and what is based only on the prestige of authority. This requires a method within the method. No other field of investigation is so authority-laden as Jesus-research. Thus the question has to be, ‘what sort of authority is it and does it have bearing on the kind of investigation TJP wants to be?’ Do scholars in Christian origins regard anything beyond the mere fact of early Christian literature and aspects of its context as “indubitable”?

2. “Divide every question into manageable parts.” This seems self-evident, but it has not been the pattern of previous investigations. Neither the question “Did Jesus exist?” nor “What did he ‘really’ say?” was manageable. Formulating the sub-questions and prior questions is likely to be a painstaking business. If it is not done systematically and in a free and open debate, the Project may as well disband now.

3. “Begin with the simplest issues and ascend to the more complex.” It seems to me that this is the one step we have a grip on—the early reports came from communities. Their historicity cannot be doubted. That is a simple fact. These communities were called into existence by an event or sequence of events, the precise nature of which scholarship has spent over two centuries trying to reconstruct. I do not think those reconstructions, from the most radical to the most “traditional,” can escape our scrutiny. The road from simplicity to complexity cannot be shortcut by an appeal to the sanctity of consensus. The scientific nature of TJP is on trial precisely at this point; can we be as iconoclastic and skeptical as the Cartesian method requires us to be or do we look for safe havens in the competing correctnesses of our educational or political investments?

4. “Review the process consistently, so that the objectives of the process (the “argument”) is always in view.” The “argument,” it follows, should not be a conclusion, a favorite hypothesis, an agenda. What Virgil says of “Rumour” (Aeneid, IV, 173) can be applied here to “Reputation.” It flies aloft, moves with a strength of its own—threatens every collaboration, and it threatens this one. The ability to keep an objective in view derives from the successful execution of steps one through three. The Seminar evoked attrition because it lost sight of an objective and became a cloud of unknowing rather than a cloud of witnesses. It is important that TJP does not become a sounding board for private or exotic fantasies about Who Jesus Really Was. In short, TJP must not become an opportunity for its members to proselytize others to their point of view.

Above all, Descartes understood the importance of deconstruction, landscape, and using precise measures for “what is known.” His naïve faith in certainty comes to us from a different world, with a different sense of “measurability” and expectation of success.

But I submit the process still has on its side simplicity and intellectual candor, and that is what I personally would like TJP to display.


Jesus is Bankrupt: Why We’re Talking Past Each Other

February 4, 2009

By Thomas Verenna

April DeConick was goodly enough to continue this conversation on her blog (and we’re all thankful she did). But I want to start out by making it clear that April has not represented my position correctly. Even when she quotes it in block-quote format, she seems to have missed my words completely. This is a serious problem because we will continue to talk past each other.

I will take each of April’s bullet points (what she falsely labels as “Tom’s points”) one at a time. We will determine, at the end of this article, if “mythers” (I do hope she is not being derogatory here) are “drawing from their methods conclusions that force the methods beyond what they can actually tell us”.

First, I never asked the question April posits: “The gospel narratives were written “to tell a good story” not to record “history”, so isn’t there reason to doubt Jesus’ historicity? I would never phrase a question in this manner because it does not adequately represent my position. In fact, the statement I made was the following:

“[Mythicists examine] Gospel genre (if the Gospels weren’t written for the purpose of “telling what happened” but rather “telling a good story” there clearly is reason to doubt the historicity of Jesus Christ).”

The difference between the two statements is mere context. In April’s question (which she falsely labels as one of my points) there is no mention or discussion of my precursor example, that of Genre. In fact she doesn’t even deal with that in any manner. So I would not disagree with her assessment that “the mere fact that the story is constructed is not evidence for the non-existence of Jesus.” That would be a logically sound criticism against me if I were making such a case. Thankfully, however, my point was not about the story simply being constructed—rather, it was about authorial intent. If the author had never intended to write a history of events surrounding a historical Jesus but instead was writing a Jewish novel reminiscent of the book of Tobit, for example (and only as an example), the question of historicity would not even be considered. (Nobody wonders if Tobit existed historically)

Genre plays an important role here considering that the debate over what genre the Gospel of Mark constitutes alone is still hotly debated. It has shifted from Greco-Roman biography (Charles Talbert), to a genre that came about ex nihilo (as “Gospel”–Bultmann), to something akin to Greek Romance Novels (Mary Ann Tolbert), to Jewish Novel (Michael Vines), to origin tradition akin to the Hebrew Bible (Thomas L. Thompson), to Homeric Hypertext (Dennis MacDonald), and so on. The debate can be settled, but first all presuppositions need to fall away (this includes those associated with certain branches of mythicism and historicism). Part of the problem is that the assumption is assumed a priori that Jesus lived and the Gospels authors thought that he lived. When that assumption is removed, the Gospels can be looked at in a different way. In what way will depend on that investigation—however, the answer to Genre can never be assumed from another assumption. That is what historicists have been doing and what needs to stop happening.

It all comes down to authorial intent. Can it be shown that the Gospel authors knew of a historical Jesus? Were they writing from a perspective of a Christian or a Jew interpreting scripture? The only way to discover answers is to ask the question without the shades of bias and judge the exegetical content on its own grounds. If it can be shown the Gospel of Mark is not about a preaching messianic figure in the first century, but instead about a literal Jesus Christ (the ‘anointed savior’) who is derived not from the “vagaries of memory” (as Crossan would put it) but from reading and interpreting scripture, there clearly is reason to question the grounds of historicity. April may not like that fact, but her opinion is as irrelevant as mine is. What matters are the answers and what they can tell us. And once more (I don’t know how many times I can stress this), you can’t know the answer unless you first ask the relevant questions.

On April’s second bullet point; she italicizes a statement she assumed I was making; that being “The authors of the gospels used narrative models to construct their stories. However this is not what I wrote. What I did write was the following:

“[Mythicists examine] intertextuality (the models used by the authors of the Gospels to create narrative—and how much of the Gospel can be traced back to models).”

The difference is, once again, in the context. April seems to think I am trying to suggest that because the authors used models that there could not have been a Jesus. She then borders on the absurd when she writes that “[a]ll it can tell us is that the early Christians were part of the Greco-Roman educational system, and used models known to them to write Jesus’ story.” It’s absurd in two ways. First, I can say the same thing about Tobit. Clearly the author of Tobit was a part of the Greco-Roman educational system, and he very clearly used models (as Dennis MacDonald and George Nicklesburg aptly show). Does that mean that we should throw our hands up in the sky and say “Well, we just can’t know if Tobit existed historically or not.” Hopefully the reader would laugh at me for even suggesting that.

It’s an additionally absurd statement because it has little to do with what I actually wrote. In my original statement, I was dealing specifically with model use in relation to intertextuality; that being how the author created narrative not how the author used “narrative models to construct their stories” as April puts it. The Gospels are narrative. The difference is in how the author intended his reader to interpret them. Intertextuality is not just about the model use of the author—it is about how the author uses model to create a narrative in a semiotic manner.

I’ll bring this down to earth more with an example. We can all agree that Lucian’s Philopseudes is a fiction novel. We know because Lucian tells us plainly. But Lucian does not create his story full-cloth. His narrative is ripe with intertextual references that a full-knowing reader (ala Joseph Pucci) would understand. In a scene where Eucrates tells Lucian’s protagonist (or perhaps his antagonist?) Tychiades about the apparition of his dead wife, for example, he brings up the fact that she was mad that her one sandal had not been burned with her at her funeral. Some have suggested that this scene is an adjusted form from Herodotus’ story of Periander, where he had to burn all the clothes of the women in Corinth to appease his former wife’s spirit. However the general theme here is more Homeric—it’s about the lack of a proper burial. The fact is, Lucian is letting his readers know where he is getting his narrative from. He has purposefully concocted his story to allow for the reader. This is intertextuality in action. It is not just about filling in gaps of a known historical event; it is about intentionally using model to create a narrative as a whole for a purpose other than writing history. The fact that this happens in the Gospels is not what I was contending (clearly Mark tells us right off the bat that he is interpreting scripture and not historical events—it is not inferred but explicitly stated).

How much this happens and whether or not the whole of the Gospel of Mark, for instance, was written with the intent of being read in a similar fashion as Lucian’s Philopseudes is something that needs to be brought into question. It is here where the investigation lies. When I specifically wrote “and how much of the Gospel can be traced back to models” I was referring directly to this sort of study. If all of the Gospel of Mark is written from models in a semiotic way, the Gospel is not simply “Jesus’ story”, as April insists. Indeed, when April asks “would we expect otherwise?” she misses the point all together. “What we expect” is exactly what needs to be brought into question and consideration. What would the readers of Mark have expected? What did the readers of Tobit expect?

April thirdly says that

“It doesn’t matter a hoot whether the early Christians thought Jesus to be a real human being or an angel or a god. They in fact thought all these things, and what these represent are theological interpretations. They may be interpretations laid on an historical figure just as well as not. This argument cannot tell us whether or not Jesus existed.”

The problem here is that April would rather throw up her hands in defeat than find out “what this argument can tell us”—as it were. The questions have never been investigated, so there is no knowing what the evidence will reveal when examined in an unbiased manner. Saying “so what?” is exactly the attitude that will stunt all historical questions. Imagine if scholars stopped asking questions? Well, April would not have much to publish on. Worse yet, it allows for evangelicals to erroneously continue to suggest the answer to these questions constitutes the sum of “because it happened”. These are society’s memories we’re dealing with and it is our duty to treat these questions responsibly. Being intellectually lazy about them is not the way scholars should be handling them.

But lets step back a second. It will be important, once again, to revise April’s context. I never once said that “the original Christian sect expected a spiritual savior. My words were far more precise.

“[Mythicists examine] Jewish socio-cultural studies in the Hellenistic and Roman periods (did the Jews of the original “Christian” sect expect a historical savior or a spiritual one?”

Notice the difference? I made the distinction between spiritual and historical for a reason. If it could be determined that that early proto-Christians (like Paul) thought their Jesus was crucified on a heavenly plane (the “Jerusalem above”) instead of a hill outside Jerusalem on earth that would be a pretty big deal. Paul, assuming he wrote the letters and is accurately dated to the middle of the first century, is our earliest known source to the origin of Christian tradition. If he did not know of any historical Jesus, that would turn the idea of a historical core to the Gospels on its head, would it not? It would at the very least make a noticeable dent.

April is right that early Christians thought all sorts of things, but they thought these things over an extended period of time and continue to think all sorts of things today, too (the revival of the Gnostic movement in America is one example of this). The point is not about what Marcion thought, or what Origin or Justin Martyr thought, or what the Mandeans, the Manichaens, or the Cathars thought, nor Ted Haggard or Rick Warren; its about what the original Christians (whoever they were) thought. I explicitly stated that the focus of one of the Mythicist investigations was the original Christians, not the ones who came later. Certainly this question alone will spawn dozens more questions (who were these first Christians? Do we have any record of them? Where did they originate from? Did Paul convert into this sect or did he convert into a different sect derived from a later religious meme?). But these questions would never be asked, let alone known, if we all had April’s same cavalier attitude.

April finishes up with more apathy.

“Religious trends change quickly over time. So what. Some do. Some don’t. And in each case, these should be tracked and evaluated. This tracking would tell us a lot about early Christian construction of their religion, but Jesus’ existence? Come on.

She derives another ad hoc argument from thin air and talks past me. My original point was thus:

“[Mythicists examine] religious-meme change (how quickly did religious trends change and how much could they have changed over that period of time—for example, euhemerizing a legendary figure of Jesus into a historical setting).”

Where did I ever say “religious trends change quickly”? The whole point of this particular examination is to see how quickly these memes change and how often! I think it can be argued conclusively and persuasively that Paul did not know of a historical Jesus—that he only knew of a spiritual being that revealed himself to him. The “tracking” of this change (from a spiritual Jesus to a euhemerized Jesus) is exactly what Mythicists investigate and what the Jesus Project should inquire about (i.e. is there a reason to doubt Paul’s knowledge of a historical Jesus? Etc…). If April is going to continually ignore vital questions, misrepresent valid points of investigation, this project will never get on its feet. Instead, we will be grid-locked in a never ending blogersation talking past each other in an ad hoc war.

I have to ask April to carefully read the articles she wants to openly discuss publicly. If she is going to attack a position, she should at least know more about it first. Mythicists, as I have shown, are not coming up with conclusions beyond what the evidence can tell us. That is an illusion of some scholars who still have not yet read the arguments—apparently, not even those arguments they are directly addressing. Instead, mythicists are dealing with the evidence, asking questions that have been grossly ignored or taken for granted. I do not think that any of the mythicists taking part in the Jesus project are working towards the goal where we can definitively say that Jesus did not exist. It may be that the investigation (as a whole) concludes this (or at least, that there is room to doubt historicity), but that is the community (not mythicists alone). As G.A. Wells put it, “whatever the final upshot of the debate may be, there are good reasons for at least doubting [the historical Jesus].” That is all, I think, mythicists really want. I don’t think that is asking more than the evidence can give. In fact, I think that is what the evidence suggests.


Helping the Historicists Get it Right: What is Mythicism?

February 3, 2009

By Thomas Verenna

In a very interesting blog series “The Jesus Seminar Jesus is Bankrupt,” April DeConick explains where she started in Biblical Studies—believing in the methods of historical Jesus scholarship and accepting the historicity of the figure of Jesus—to show where she is now. She writes that she has grown out of the belief that the historical Jesus can be salvaged. Concerning this Jesus, she concludes that “[t]his Jesus is nothing more than a constructed person who exists only in our imaginations.”

A quick skim through my blog over the past year will lead readers to articles on this same subject (the historical Jesus of the Jesus Seminar, et al) and hopefully they will be gratified to know I have come to the same conclusion. What I cannot wrap my mind around is how construed and poorly understood mythicism really is. It sometimes seems as though Historical Jesus scholars are incapable of explaining mythicism beyond a jumbled mess of metaphysical hoopla and “Freke and Gandy Syndrome” (Or the sometimes-called “Kersey Graves Phobia“).

Instead of actually reading recent mythicist material, historicists seem content with referencing non-scholarly material (like the film Zeitgeist or books by Acharya S) or severely outdated mythicist books (like Graves’ book or Arthur Drews’ The Christ Myth published in the early twentieth century). Thompson, Doherty, Price, Carrier or Wells seem to rarely ever be heard in the debate—often historicists have some recollection of these names but have only skimmed the studies (if that). Bart Ehrman even went so far as to use hyperbole as an argument when he spoke the words in the vein of Michael Grant that “no serious scholar” doubts the historicity of Jesus. In other words, while historicists (generally) are well-studied and able to articulate to others the socio-cultural world of the first-century CE, they are (please forgive me if this comes off as brash) ignorant of the many arguments proposed by modern-day mythicists who are also well-versed in the socio-cultural world of the first century CE. This comes from the very obvious bias against mythicism; no historicist has yet given a valid reason for this. (Can anybody?)

In April’s article, she expresses mythicism in a similar “phobic” manner (in that she appears to be completely ignorant of new arguments for mythicism):

“I say this not because I am a myther. In fact, I think that the myther position cannot be maintained, because parallels between Jesus’ myth and other ancient myths tell us nothing about whether or not he lived as a real person. It only tells us that ancient people cast their memories of Jesus into mythological narratives and schema that were part of their culture and minds.”

This was also picked up and parroted by historicist James McGrath (who should know better than to repeat this sort of statement after he and I have had repeated conversations about this very subject) in his popular “Around the Blogosphere” series (which is usually quite interesting). The problem with the statement above is that very few modern mythicists rely primarily on pagan myth parallels. Those who do are doomed to fail under any serious scrutiny (the aforementioned Acharya S, who has a large following, is one such mythicist who I strongly disagree with precisely because of her primary reliance upon pagan myth parallels and “astrotheology”). I am even on record for making this distinction in my article Mythicism, Minimalism, and its Detractors (which deals with these very objections by April DeConick and others).

More recent mythicist arguments deal with exegesis, Gospel genre (if the Gospels weren’t written for the purpose of “telling what happened” but rather “telling a good story” there clearly is reason to doubt the historicity of Jesus Christ), intertextuality (the models used by the authors of the Gospels to create narrative—and how much of the Gospel can be traced back to models), Jewish socio-cultural studies in the Hellenistic and Roman periods (did the Jews of the original “Christian” sect expect a historical savior or a spiritual one?), religious-meme change (how quickly did religious trends change and how much could they have changed over that period of time—for example, euhemerizing a legendary figure of Jesus into a historical setting), and proto-Christian origins (was there a “Christianity” before the first-century CE and where did it originate?) . Clearly April would be correct if the mythicist position was reliant only on pagan myth parallels. It’s a good thing then that modern mythicists generally do not rely on pagan parallels whatsoever.

Bibliography

Thomas L. Thompson

The Messiah Myth

The Bible in History: How Writers Create a Past (concerning the Old Testament but relevant for New Testament)

Robert M. Price

Jesus is Dead

Deconstructing Jesus

The Incredible Shrinking Son of Man

The Pre-Nicene New Testament

Alan Dundes

Holy Writ as Oral Lit: The Bible as Folklore

G.A. Wells

The Jesus Legend

Earl Doherty

The Jesus Puzzle

Frank Zindler

The Jesus the Jews Never Knew

Richard Carrier

The Empty Tomb (3 Chapters are his concerning Pauline theology but the book is a collection of well-written essays)

On the Historicity of Jesus Christ (Forthcoming)

Review of Earl Doherty’s The Jesus Puzzle

Thomas S. Verenna

Did Jesus Exist?

Finding Oneself at the Mount of Olives

On Divorce and Faithfulness to Wife and God: Mark’s Reading of Malachi and 1 Corinthians